Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

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Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Lee on Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:34 pm

Does any body here believe in the teaching of once saved
always saved. Let’s get this topic going, sahll we!
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by 4Zion on Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:15 am

I was taught this in some of the former churches I attended. I began to have trouble finding clear support for the doctrine scripturally.Whenever I would ask for clarification from my leaders .The statement was made that "You cannot lose your salvation...well if anyone turns away then they were never saved to begin with!" That made some sense, but scriptural staements like "he who endures til the end will be saved"and work out your salvation with fear and trembling"If he did not spare the natural branches dont think that the wild branches grafted in will be spared either Rom 11 (paraphrase mine) I just really believe that we still have free will and we can make choices for good or evil even though we are believers.Aparently some will even choose to receive the mark of the beast in the end and this will seal their destruction!"Pray that no one deceives you!"
Shalom

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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Lee on Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:19 am

Ezekiel 18:24 is one of the most clearest verses in the Bible along with 2 Peter 2:20-21 that fight against the doctrine of the devil called once saved always saved.

2 Peter 2:20-21{ For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.}

Ezekiel 18:24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.}
When the scripture says die it means you go to hell. There are many, many more scriptures that I have and are also powerful in the battle against this evil teaching. But that is good enough for now. Lee
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by johnsorensen on Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:28 pm

If you get saved you are saved at that time. After that it's up to you to stay saved. If you fall back to your old ways before you got saved then you loose it. Now my question is, if you loose it can you be saved again? If so how many times before God gives up on you?
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:37 pm

Yes, you can come back and be resaved shal we say. As to how many times, as many as it takes to stick, or you die.

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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:04 pm

YES I do believe once you are saved (born again) you will always be otherwise you were never saved to begin with. It is simple really...those whom the Lord speaks of as falling away, or going on sinning never truly received the word and found root ( the parable of the sower)
Ephesians 1 speaks of our security in Christ Jesus.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 speaks of our seal of the Holy Spirit as well.
Jesus tells us that all whom the Father gives Him are His and that no one snatch them out of His hand. (John 10:29)

Of course we have trials and tribulations but the Holy Spirit is WITH US always, if we are in Christ, if we belong to Him, nothing can separate us from Him!
Romans 8:39
nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who "claim" to be saved but aren't well they will come face to face with the Lord come judgment day, and He will say "Depart From Me, I never knew you"
Anyone can "say" they are a christian, but it is God who knows the heart, and God knows who are His sheep and who are not His sheep. Those who are His sheep, will always be His- they cannot "lose" their salvation in Him. Nowhere does the Bible teach this- many may see scriptures that may lead them to believe this but what you need to know is those scriptures speak of people who were actually never saved to begin with. Those whom God spits out of His mouth were never truly His. God knows who are truly His.
John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:11 pm

Let me add that many may say they are righteous, many can pray the prayer to accept Christ, does this mean they actually receive Him?
Jesus says:
Matthew 11:27
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
It is GOD who draws us, and God who saves us, not ourselves. Nothing in us can save us, it is simply the Holy Spirit who convicts our hearts and turns us around. We cannot do this on our own. Many may pray the prayer but they are not believing it- And it is only in God's hands- for only He can soften person's heart and reveal the truth to them.
John 6:44 says :No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me(A) draws him. And(B) I will raise him up on the last day.
(Read Romans 3 in regards to why nobody can seek God on their own)
Jesus says in John 15:5 "Apart from Me you can do nothing" TRUE!
Romans 9 is also a wonderful chapter in the sovereignty of God- it is biblical that salvation belongs to God! (Revelation 7:10)
But our salvation in Him comes from Him- and He chooses us, we do not choose Him (John 15:16) We are not worthy! We have no good in us to do so! (Romans 3:10) This brings Glory to God all the more when you come to understand this. How it is about HIM, not us. It is about His wonderful grace which he bestows upon us through Christ Jesus our Lord! Indeed all glory belongs to Him!
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:13 pm

Lee why did you post this question in this category??
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by johnsorensen on Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:57 pm

You people make a lot of since. I never thought about if you truely get saved and you keep on sinning then you weren't really saved at all. I mean anyone can say the sinners prayer and say that they except Jesus into their hearts and life and not mean it.
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Lee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:02 pm

I think this will help, I wrote this letter about a year and a half ago. It will explaine everthing.
you must read it with a open mind!!!


Once Saved Not Always Saved
I
will prove from the scriptures that this { once saved always saved idea
is from Satan himself. And then I will untwist the scriptures that
these misguided preachers twist to suit their doctrine of heresy. They
say that there is nothing you can do that will make you loose your
salvation, that when you got saved all your past, present, and future
sins are all covered. This is against the word of God, and a stench in
God’s nostrils. First we look at the strongest of the scriptures that
proves my point. In { Ezekiel 18: verse 24 and verse 26 it says But
if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and
does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None
of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the
unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has
committed, he will die.
verse 26 If a righteous man
turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it,
because of the sin he has committed he will die.
And in the Amplified Bible it says die in your sins
which would be more accurate because any time the Bible says die in
your sins, it means you go to hell. Some will say that is the old
testament, that It doesn’t apply to today. Look at the Gospel of {Luke
9:62} in the Amplified Bible Jesus said to him no one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back to the things behind is fit for the kingdom of God.
notice that Jesus said the same thing that Ezekiel said only said a
little different way. Are you starting to get the picture now. Lets
move on. This scripture is talking about a saved person. I will explain
after the Scripture. 2 peter 2:20-21 NIV Bible, If they have
escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse
off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been
better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to
have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that
was passed on to them.
After you come to a full knowledge
of Christ and escape the pollutions of the world Through the gospel
you are a saved person. But if you turn your back on the Word of God
and fall back into sin and do not repent it is worse for you in the end
than it was for you in the beginning when you were lost because you now
have no excuse. You knew God and knowing God you still turned your back
on him. Now we will look at Hebrews 10:26-32 This scripture is also talking about a saved person. If
we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of
the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful
expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the
enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy
on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do
you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God
under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the
covenant that {sanctified} him, and who has insulted the Spirit of
Grace?
Any one who has been sanctified has been purified, and
set apart for the plans and purposes of God. That means the person has
been saved. If the saved person turns back to sin, he disgraces himself
and God and insulted the Holy Spirit. If a once saved person does not
repent and continues in their sin God will Put into effect Revelation
2:5 Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I
will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place. In this
particular scripture the lamp stand represents the Holy Spirit. Jesus
says that if you do not repent he will take your Holy Spirit away from
you, and you will walk in darkness, without the light. God will not
tolerate sin. Without Holiness no one sees the Lord. {Hebrews 12:14}
{Matthew 7:21} Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will
enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord did we
not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and
perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!
Do backsliders do the will of the Father in Heaven? No they do not. Revelation 21:27 Nothing
impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or
deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of
life.
Are backsliders impure do backsliders do shameful and deceitful things? Yes they do. In Matthew 10:22 says he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
do backsliders stand firm in the faith? No they do not. Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his
kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw
them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing
of teeth. A true Christian does not do evil. A true Christian may sin
unknowingly, but they do not practice evil. Backsliders do all sorts
of evil. They do not respond to the pricking of the Holy Spirit, they
ignore the still small voice that says don’t do that, for the penalty
of sin is death. Stop, what will Jesus think. The Backslider doesn’t
care about what Jesus thinks. They just want their sin. They chose sin
over the love of God. {John 10:28:29}I give them eternal life,
and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of my hand. My
Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can
snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
I believe this scripture.
No one can snatch you out of God’s hand but you can walk out of his
hand. If you stay in his hand and follow him no one will be able to
snatch you out of his hand but if you go back to sinning, you chose to
walk out of his hand, out of his will, out of his presence, and out of
his protection . You sure can loose your salvation by persisting in sin
and not repenting. You can’t work your way into Heaven, rather good
works prove that you are saved. Your good works are generated by the
Holy Spirit, proving the presence of God in your heart. Lets look at 1
John 3:9-10 No one who is born of God will continue to sin,
because God’s seed remains in him, he cannot go on sinning, because he
has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are
and who the children of the devil are. Anyone who does not do what is
right is not a child of God, so is anyone who does not love his brother.
1 Corinthians 10:21 You
cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too. You cannot
have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.
you can’t have your cake and eat it to, you can’t live like the devil and still go to Heaven. Look at what Isaiah 7:9 says If you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all. Backsliders are very much into the world, they are a friend of the world. Lets look at James 4:4 for a moment. You
adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is
hatred toward God. Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world
becomes an enemy of God.
And 1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. and 2 Timothy 2:19 everyone who confesses the name of the lord {must} turn away from wickedness. 1 John 5:4 For everyone born of God overcomes the world. Hebrews 10:39 But our way is not that of those who draw back to eternal misery {Perdition} and are utterly destroyed. Perdition is hell, as in the son of Perdition. Matthew 7:13-14 Enter
through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road
that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the
gate and narrow the road that leads to eternal life, and only a few
find it.
Listen to what Jude verse 4 has to say about these eternal security preachers. For
certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly
slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our
God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only
Sovereign and Lord.
and in Colossians 2:8 Paul also talks about them. See
to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive
philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles
of this world rather than on Christ.
1 Timothy 4:1-2 The
Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and
follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teaching
comes through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as
with a hot iron.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will
come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit
their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of
teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Romans 16:17-18 I
urge you brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put
obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have
learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord
Christ, but their own {appetites}. By smooth talk and flattery they
deceive the minds of {naïve people}.
These eternal security
teachings is very appealing to the backslider because it allows for sin
to reign in their lives. God will not tolerate sin. This teaching also
says it is OK for you to go on sinning because you are saved forever.
This teaching removes the responsibly of living a Holy life. Since when
did God excuse sin. Since when did God say that sin was OK. God is a
Holy God, so Holy that he cannot look upon sin. {Habakkuk 1:13.} any
body who Loves sin will also love eternal security preachers, and hate
the other kind that teach that you have to live Holy as the Bible
really teaches. Look at what Jesus said in John 15:18 If the
world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged
to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is , you do not
belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is
why the world hates you.
the sinful world will hate the teaching of Jesus because Jesus taught perfection. Jesus’ words - Matthew 5:48 Be perfect therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect. Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say. John 14:15 If you love me you will obey what I command. Backsliders hate this verse! John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. by
this verse we know who loves Jesus and who doesn’t, who belongs to him
and who doesn’t. this next verse is equally distasteful to
backsliders. John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is
like a branch that is thrown away and withers, such branches are picked
up, thrown into the fire and burned.
backsliders do not
remain with him, they choose sin over him and that is a hell sentence.
It is possible to live a Holy life because Jesus’ power to conquer sin
is there for the asking, but some people do not want his power, they
want sin instead. Look at what Jesus says in John 14:23 If
anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and
we will come to him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
Do backsliders obey his teaching, no, they do not. Luke 13:24 Make
every effort to enter through the narrow door because many I tell you,
will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house
gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and
pleading, Sir, open the door for us. But he will answer, I don’t know
you or where you come from. Then you will say we ate and drank with
you, and you taught in our streets. But he will reply, I don’t know you
or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers! There will be
weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves
thrown out.
in Revelation all the letters to the Churches that Jesus gave all said to him who overcomes
why would he ask you to be an over comer if you couldn’t, wouldn’t that
be mean of God to tell you to do something you could not do. Be open
minded, God never tried to confuse us. I Could go on and on but I
think by now you get the picture. With this much light shed on this
subject, you would have to read this letter with your eyes closed to
still believe in { once saved always saved.} It is not true and it
never will be true no matter how much sinful people try to twist the
scriptures so they can sin and get away with it. I pray that this
letter will change your mind because remember if you disagree with this
letter you disagree with the word of God. God be with you.
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:49 am

Lee- do you realize that those verses you say speak of "saved" people do not actually say they belong to Christ? READ the parable of the sower, look at how many receive it, yet do not find root, who are carried away by other doctrines, they HEARD the truth, acknowledged it but were quickly swept away- they were NOT SAVED.
This makes complete sense!! Those who were "righteous" does not mean they were saved in Jesus Christ, they may have done righteous deeds but did not belong to God. For when we are saved our names are written in the book of life!!
These verses you gave:
John 3:9-10 No one who is born of God will continue to sin,
because God’s seed remains in him, he cannot go on sinning, because he
has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are
and who the children of the devil are. Anyone who does not do what is
right is not a child of God, so is anyone who does not love his brother.
1 Corinthians 10:21 You
cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too. You cannot
have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.



_YES!!! see, we cannot belong to God and belong to the world at the same time. Those who belong to God do not go on willfully sinning, if they do they were never truly saved to begin with, they took salvation in vain- they thought it was just a safety net. They did not truly come to the knowledge of salvation in Jesus Christ- they may have understood it, but their hearts never took root in the truth. The Spirit never took residence in their lives.

Doesn't that make sense?? It is God who saves us, we do nothing on our own. (See Romans 3, Romans 9) Jesus says that He chose us, we did not choose Him- and we can only be drawn by the Spirit, we do not come to God on our own (John 6:44, and Romans 3:10) If we believe this, we are believing in works, rather than His grace. And we know it is by grace we are saved, THROUGH faith, not of ourselves lest anyone boast ( Ephesians 2:8-9)
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:54 am

Also remember, many of the O.T verses speak of those who did believe in God, who did love the Lord, but what had NOT come then? The Holy SPIRIT!! The Holy Spirit had not come to seal them, keep them, for salvation in Jesus Christ had not come yet, that is why when Jesus died, it says he went to set the captives free, meaning he went to save those who were in Abrahams bosom (Those who believed before He came, but died)
Ephesians 4:8-9
8Therefore it says,

(A) "When he ascended on high(B) he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men."
9((C) In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into(D) the lower regions, the earth?[a] 10He who descended is the one who also(E) ascended(F) far above all the heavens, that he might(G) fill all things.)
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:55 am

And when it is speaking of him who overcomes- speaking of them who come out of the great tribulation.
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:57 am

(Sorry I keep posting!!) I just keep thinking of more things to say, in answers to your questions-- those whom the Lord throws out did not belong to Him, that is why He will say "Depart from Me" because they were never saved to begin with! They said they were, they acted like they were, but God knows who are HIS and who are not His, he knows who are of their father the devil (John 8) and who are of Him. And this is when the truth will be revealed, because we will all stand before the Lord come judgment day. And many will be greatly surprised that day. (sadly)

They were "all talk" but never walked the walk. Does that make sense? Anyone can say they know God....Anyone can say anything! But is God who weighs the heart, right?
Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes,but the LORD weighs the heart.
Proverbs 24:12
If you say, "Behold, we did not know this," does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it,and will he not repay man according to his work?
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:17 pm

Okay read this... (it's from John MacArthur)

And then He adds, "And I will not erase his name from the Book of Life but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Now stay with me for a moment, I need to explain this because people ask this all the time. He says, "I will not erase his name from the Book of Life." People will say to me, "Does this mean that God might erase my name from the Book of Life?" I can't believe people ask that question because the verse says, "I will not erase his name from the Book of Life." What would make someone think that He might when He just said He won't? How can you turn a promise into a threat?

This doesn't imply that God puts names in and takes them out at random. You say, "Now wait a minute. Back in Exodus 32 verse 33 the Lord said to Moses, `Whoever has sinned against Me, I'll blot him out of My book.' Now do we have a contradiction? In Exodus 32 God says I will blot you out of my book, in Revelation 3 He says I will not erase you out of My book, what's the issue?"

Very simple. In Exodus 32:33 it doesn't say "the Book of Life," it is not the Book of Life. Those verses refer to an untimely death. That's all He's saying. I'll remove them from the world, I'll take them out of the book of those who are alive. It is not the book of the redeemed. God will take the life of someone, He will remove their life but He will never remove their salvation. If you have any question about that, you need to read Romans 8 verses 26 to 39 again. No, God put the names in before the foundation of the world and He put them in there because He was going to bring about eternal salvation. And under no circumstances will He erase those names. Your salvation was sealed before the world began. God may take your life for sin, but He will never take your salvation.

In John's day, a king always kept a register. If a man committed a crime against the state, or if he died, his name was erased. So they always kept the register of the city accurate. When you died, your name was erased, you were taken off the roll. Or if you committed a crime you were erased, your name was taken off the roll. Christ is saying the king, the mayor, whoever runs your city might take your name off the list for something you've done, but, believe Me, I will never take your name off My list. You see, He's giving them encouragement, isn't He? He's saying, "I'm talking strong talk here and I'm talking about coming like a thief and bringing great harm and I'm talking about coming in judgment but I know you that are the overcomers, you have nothing to fear, you're going to wear white, you're going to be eternally holy and there is nothing that make me ever take your name out of My book, in fact just the opposite. I will confess your name before My Father and before His angels."

What do You mean by that? I will affirm that you belong to Me. In the post-Reformation period of 1517 to 1750, the church in terrible acts of excommunication separated souls from the church and consigned them to hell. They got heavy into excommunication. Here the Lord is simply saying...the world may excommunicate you, the dead churches may excommunicate you off their rolls, I will never do that. The Pope's henchmen stood in the presence of the fearless preacher, Savanna Rolla(??), they said, "I separate you from the church militant and triumphant." They said that to Savanna Rolla said, "From the church militant, yes. From the church triumphant, no." You cannot be separated, you cannot be erased.

On October 21, 1517 Martin Luther was excommunicated. Martin Luther's name was blotted out of the church books. His soul was consigned to everlasting hell and damnation. Jesus is saying, they may take you out of their books, you pure people, you whose garments are not defiled, they may kick you out of their dead church, but I'll never erase you out of My book. That's security. Rather, "I will confess your name before My Father and before His angels." You remember the words of Jesus? "If you confess Me before men," Matthew 10:32, "I'll confess you before My Father who is in heaven
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Lee on Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:23 pm




Revelation 2:5

Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first
works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lamp stand from its
place unless you repent.


The lamp stand represents
the light of the Holy Spirit,

Which God will remove
from you if you do not repent from your wicked ways.

This is the same as
loosing your salvation.

With the Holy Spirit
removed, you no longer have any way to heaven.

But if you should
repent God gives it back to you again. This is found in

Romans 11:23 {And they also, if they do not continue in
unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.}


And about no one able
to snatch you out of His and, that part is true, it is you who walk out if his
hand by not repenting.

And the Holy Spirit
being a seal, it is your seal as long as you have it, but

Revelation 2:5 is very clear that God will remove it if you
do not repent.

Hebrews 10:29

Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy
who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by
which he was((
sanctified )) a common thing, and insulted the
Spirit of grace?



when you were sanctified, that means you were saved. Which
means that a sanctified saved person has backslid into sin and in to perdition.

Hebrews 6:4

{There is no use trying to bring you back to the Lord again if you have
once understood the Good News and {{{{
tasted for yourself the good things
of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit}}},
and know how good the Word of God is, and felt
the mighty powers of the world to come, and
then have turned against God. You cannot bring yourself to repent again if you
have nailed the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up
to mocking and to public shame.}


Anybody that has tasted the Holy Spirit is saved, even you would agree
with that.


About a person never
being saved to begin with, this does happen, but there are those also who are
saved who turn there back on Jesus and chose sin over Him, and never come back.

So I have given you some scriptures to explain away. I await your post.
Lee


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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:22 pm

Lee you must know the context of Romans 11 speaks of the remnant of Israel that God is going to save regardless. He has set aside a remnant for NOW until the fullness of the gentiles comes in.

As for the other scriptures, I encourage you to read this commentary:
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Positions/137

(It is really long so I didn't want to copy and paste it)
Also here is another from blueletterbible.org, these give the scriptural meanings of what you are saying:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/comm_read.pl?book=Hbr&chapter=6&verse=6&Comm=Comm%2Fcharles_spurgeon%2Fsermons%2F0075.html%23107%26Charles%26Spurgeon&Select.x=16&Select.y=11
(now this one is REALLY long so if you have the time PLEASE read it ALL, because it explains to a tee the verses in Hebrews 6)
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:22 pm

Also remember there is a difference between New and Old Covenant. We no longer have need to sacrifice animals, as Jesus is the one sacrifice for sins. We are not saved, unsaved, saved again etc.....Jesus took our sins ONCE AND FOR ALL, so when we believe, we are set free from sin. Give eternal life, sealed with his Spirit ( as the Bible says, scriptures above I posted, nothing is more clear than that) Context of scripture is SOO SOOO important to know when studying the Bible. Blueletterbible.org is a great website that gives the greek and hebrew text of scriptures, so you can better know what they mean.
Before the Holy Spirit came, could you imagine how hard it would be to walk with God? Because we are all sinners, and our flesh is weak as the New Testament says. But since the Holy Spirit came, we have CONVICTION which is so important and I am so glad the Lord gives that. He lives IN US! Praise be to Him!

The Old Testament however is VERY VERY important of course, I am not saying we are not to abide by it, please don't get me wrong....for it is ALL God's word, God breathed as 2 Timothy says.
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:40 am

This is by Lewis Sperry Chafer
The question resolves itself to one issue: did Christ do enough on the cross to make it possible for God righteously to keep one saved, as well as righteously to save at all? Since this question strikes at the very heart of the revelation regarding the cross, its importance cannot be overestimated. The solution of the question involves the very foundation of personal rest and peace, and must qualify Christian service as well. No one can rest while in terror of eternal damnation, nor can one be normal in service if he is confronted with the superhuman task of self-keeping in the realm of the new creation.
I. Passages Dispensationally Misapplied.
Mat 24:13 (see also Mar 13:13; Mat 10:22): "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." This passage occurs in the midst of the "Olivet discourse," which was addressed to Israel only. They alone are "hated of all nations" (vs. 9). The context is a description of "sorrow" and "the great tribulation" (vs. 8 and 21), which period cannot even begin on the earth until the Church has been removed (1Th 5:9; 4:13-18). It cannot, and does not, apply to any saint of this dispensation. There is a sweet promise here for those in that terrible time who endure to its end.
Eze 33:7, 8 was true under the law; but is not true under grace.
Mat 18:23-35 (cf. Mat 25:30; 20:1-16) is of "servants" in God's vineyard, Israel. This is to be distinguished from the present preaching of the gospel in the "field" which is the world. Forgiveness under the law was as ye forgive (Mat 6:14, 15). Forgiveness under grace is, like all gifts of grace, first, divinely bestowed, and then becomes an incentive in the believer's heart to exercise the same toward others (Eph 4:32). It must be noted that "servants" are not necessarily saved.

Since the entire message is too big, I encourage you to click on this link and read the rest:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/comm_read.pl?book=Hbr&chapter=6&verse=6&Comm=Comm%2Flewis_chafer%2Fsalvation%2Fsalv10.html%2341%26%7BLewis+Chafer%26&Select.x=20&Select.y=5
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Lee on Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:54 pm

Christ did do all
that we will ever need to get saved on the cross, we are totally dependant upon
Him for our salvation, I nor anybody else can not do anything to add to what Jesus
did on the cross for our salvation. But like I said, if there is no fruits, no
sings that your heart as been regenerated, you are not saved, no matter what
you confess. If Christ is truly in your heart, there will be sings that will
show His presence. If you are not truly saved, you will not have a hunger for
Him or His word. Some times there are people who get saved and then for some
reason chose sin rather that what Jesus has to offer them. That is why the Bible
says that he will take your Holy Spirit away from you in Revelation 2:5.

Matthew 24:48 { "But if that evil servant says in his
heart, `My master is delaying his coming,' "and begins to beat his fellow servants,
and to eat and drink with the drunkards, "the master of that servant will
come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not
aware of, "and will cut him in two
and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and
gnashing of teeth.}


Notice that he is using the word servant.

It is very unlikely
that I will ever change you mind, about this issue. And you will never chance
my mind. We could go round and round and round forever, with counter post, I
will continue to debate you on this if you wish but I have already said
everything I need to say concerning this. It is up to you if you wish to
continue. Lee
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:06 pm

Yes we will only go in circles. I just want to add though that what you said about us who are saved have a desire and hunger for the Lord, YES! That is JUST IT. Those who are saved have the Holy Spirit in them and that is why we desire the Lord, those who are not saved do not desire to please the Lord, and when they sin they have no conviction because the Holy Spirit does not live in them. How do we know we are abiding in Christ? Because His Spirit lives in us.
Romans 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Like I said before, many may come to the Lord, many may "pray" to the Lord but it is God who weighs the heart and it is God who saves us, and draws us. Many do not receive His salvation who think they have because they did not truly believe. Many believe for a short time but are never grounded in the word, so they are easily led astray by various doctrines (false doctrines that is) the parable of the sower in Luke is wonderful concerning all this as I have said before. The Holy Spirit has to take residence in someone's life- for that is the promise the Lord gives us!
Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
2 Corinthians 1:22
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Remember we are saved by Grace not works. One cannot lose their salvation and work at it to get it again- that is not biblical! For one to say this would mean they are relying on works, not FAITH, not the grace of God. If we have to believe we lost our faith, then work at it to get it back that is not the grace of God, but rather we are relying on works. Does that make sense? Christ died ONCE and for all. We do not keep taking Him back to the cross when we sin. We who are saved are FORGIVEN past, present and future. When we do fall into sin, we know it is wrong, we do not wish to sin. But we come to the Lord and confess because we want to, we desire to be humbled before our God- to be pure and holy before Him, and ask Him to keep us from falling- as He will! Those who fall into sin without conviction, who do this willingly THINKING they still have a place in heaven, well OBVIOUSLY they are not saved. The Holy Spirit does not live in them, as we will know them by their fruit! (Galatians 5) They do not abide in Christ, as the Holy Spirit is not working in them. They are "dead" spiritually.

  1. 2 Timothy 1:9
    who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
  2. Titus 3:5
    he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
  3. 1 John 3:6
    No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
  4. Hebrews 10:26
    For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Anastasia on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:52 pm

Yes we
will only go in circles. I
just want to add though that what you said about us who are saved have a desire
and hunger for the Lord, YES! That is JUST IT. The King Saul had
the Holy Spirit in Him but God removed it when he did not obey Romans 8:9
You, however, are

controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit
of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of
Christ, he does not belong to Christ. He is trying to tell them that since the spirit lives in
them they should not be control-- by the sinful nature anymore, that means that
they can allow themselves to be control by the sinful nature right!!


Like I said before, many may come to the Lord, many may "pray" to the
Lord but it is God who weighs the heart and it is God who saves us, and draws
us. Many do not receive His salvation who think they have because they did not
truly believe. Many believe for a short time but are never grounded in the
word, so they are easily led astray by various doctrines (false doctrines that
is) the parable of the sower in Luke is wonderful concerning all this as I have
said before. The Holy
Spirit has to take residence in someone's life- for that is the promise the
Lord gives us! Yes God has choose us just as
he chose Satan to be the most beautiful of all the Angels at one time he to was
saved, or else God wouldn’t give him the highes position he had with God. Yet
he rebel and God removed him, from heaven.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included
in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy
Spirit, Wow as if you couldn’t break
a seal by just going your own way. God never forces you like the prodigal son
you must come back if you go astray. There is scripture to support what I am
saying. Like Hebrews 10:28-33 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without
mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.


29.
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy
who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified
a common thing, and
insulted the Spirit of grace?


30.
For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says
the Lord.'' And again, "The Lord will judge His people.''


31.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


32.
But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured
a great struggle with sufferings:


33.
partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became
companions of those who were so treated; Would
you please please look up the word sanctifie!!! Just in case it means
one who has been set apart for God’s use, or to be use by god
2 Corinthians 1:22
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts
as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
I have
read both king James bibles, and no were is that guaranteeing word found in there. I think
you must mean a different verse, this is how it reeds 22.
Who hath also sealed
us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Remember we are saved by Grace not works. One cannot lose their salvation and work at it to get it
again- that is not biblical! For one to say this would mean they are
relying on works, not FAITH, not the grace of God. If we have to believe we
lost our faith,
then If
what you say is true than why does the bible say this and he said brethren and you
! James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among
you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him
back, 20. let
him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul
from death and cover a multitude of sins. work at it to get it back that is not
the grace of God, but rather we are relying on works. Does that make sense?
Christ died ONCE and for all. We do not keep taking Him back to the cross when
we sin. We who are saved are FORGIVEN past, present and future. When we do fall
into sin, we know it is wrong, we do not wish to sin. But we come to the Lord
and confess because we want to, we desire to be humbled before our God- to be
pure and holy before Him, and ask Him to keep us from falling- as He will!
Those who fall into sin without conviction, who do this willingly THINKING they
still have a place in heaven, well OBVIOUSLY they are not saved. The Holy
Spirit does not live in them, as we will know them by their fruit! (Galatians
5) They do not abide in Christ, as the Holy Spirit is not working in them. They
are "dead" spiritually.





  1. 2 Timothy 1:9
    who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works
    but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus
    before the ages began,
    This is true also but remember so was Satan saved
    from the beginning and lost his position as did all the angels who rebeld.

  2. Titus 3:5
    he saved us, not because of works done by us in
    righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of
    regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

  3. 1 John 3:6 I agree we are saved by faith alone
    but Abraham was saved by faith and that faith lead him to offer his son up
    for sacrifice He was obeying what God told him to do.
    No one who abides in
    him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either
    seen him or known him.
    That means he who is strong will not keep on
    sinning only the weak do but God did saved them also for who soever calls
    upon the name of the Lord will be saved many are called but few are
    chosen.

  4. Hebrews 10:26
    For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge
    of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, This means that there is no
    other way to get saved we were saved once and for all and now your way
    back is the same way through repentance for his mercy endures for ever.

    Anna


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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Lee on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:56 pm

You Said (Remember we are saved by Grace not works. One
cannot lose their salvation and work at it to get it again- that is not
biblical!)

Then you must tell me what Revelation 2:5 means when it says
(Think about those times of your first love (how different now!) and turn back
to me again and work as you did before; or else I will come and remove your
candlestick from its place among the churches.)

You Said (We who are saved are FORGIVEN past, present and
future.)

Your future has not been written yet, to say that a person
goes to heaven even while they are still unrepentant is like saying that God
will take you to heaven even though you do not want to go with Him. you make
your choice to follow Him or to live a life of sin. God will not force you. To
say that your future sins are all covered would mean that I can have my cake
and eat it to, live a life of sin without repenting and still go straight to
heaven.
if your future sins are all covered then there was no need for Jesus to say (
Pick up your cross daily and follow me. If my future sins are covered, I do not
need to pick up my cross daily or even every other day, because it is all
covered for all eternity, and what Jesus was saying about picking up your cross
daily means that He is a liar. Because you do not need to do any good works to
make it to the end.

2 Timothy 1:9
who saved us and called us to a
holy calling, not because of our works
but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus
before the ages began,


We are saved not of our righteousness but because of His
righteousness. Like I said before you can’t work your way into Heaven, it is
only by His grace and mercy that we are saved. But after you are saved if there
is no fruits, then the conversion was fake. This one has nothing to do with the
issue if Eternal Security.

Titus 3:5[/b]
he
saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according
to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

I agree, this still has nothing to do with Eternal Security.

1 John 3:6
No one who abides in him keeps on
sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

This one does, This is talking of some one who’s conversion
was fake. They never received Him because they were unwilling to submit to
Christ. It still has nothing to say about the person who was saved and then
backslid into sin and finally into perdition. Those who live a life of sin has
never see Him nor known Him, they just said they received Him, but had no intention
of changing their lifestyle. But there are still those who did truly receive
Him and loose their Souls due to sin and unrepentance.


Hebrews 10:26


For if we go on sinning deliberately after
receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for
sins,


This means that there is no other way to be saved except the
Cross and Jesus’ Sacrifice.


We who sin deliberately after we come to know the Lord and
share in The Holy Spirit, there is no way back for anyone except the way of the
Cross.





Hebrews 6:4 (For it is impossible for those who were once
enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of
the Holy Spirit,


and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the
age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they
crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.)

We can always come back to God through Repentance but Jesus
is the only way back, and there is no other.
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:10 am

Yes, this will be my last post, as I have many scriptures to post- but we will continue going in circles, so I would say we are going to agree to disagree.
Isaiah 43:1-3 - But now, this is what the LORD says— he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze. For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I give Egypt for your ransom, Cush and Seba in your stead.[/font][/size]

- Isaiah 54:10 - Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed," says the LORD, who has compassion on you.[/font][/size][/color]

- Jeremiah 32:40 - I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.[/font][/size][/color]

- Matthew 18:12-14 - "What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.[/font][/size][/color]

- John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.[/font][/size][/color]

- John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life….[/font][/size][/color]

- John 5:24 - I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.[/font][/size][/color]

- John 6:35-40 - Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."[/font][/size][/color]

- John 6:47 - I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.[/font][/size][/color]
- John 10:27-30 - My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."[/font][/size][/color]

- John 17:11,12,15 - I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled…My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.[/font][/size][/color]

- Romans 5:8-10 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life![/font][/color][/color]


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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

Post by Mandolyn Rain on Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:13 am

(ok that is weird, why are some verses showing up small and some large, and the size number showing??)

Here are some more:
- Romans 8:1 - Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

- Romans 8:29,30 - For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

- Romans 8:35-39 - Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

- 1 Corinthians 1:7-9 - Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

- 1 Corinthians 10:13 - No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

- 2 Corinthians 4:14,17 - because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence…For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.

- Ephesians 1:5,13,14 - he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

- Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

- Colossians 3:3,4 - For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

- 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

- 2 Timothy 4:18 - The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

- Hebrews 9:12,15 - He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption…For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

- Hebrews 10:14 - because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

- Hebrews 12:28 - Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,

- 1 Peter 1:3-5 - Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

- 1 John 2:19,25 - They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us…And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.

- 1 John 5:4,11-13,20 - for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith…And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life…We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

- Jude 1:1 - …To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ

- Jude 1:24,25 - To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
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Mandolyn Rain
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Re: Do you believe in - Once saved always saved.

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