What happened for 3 days?

Jimbob, I'm assuming that you're familiar with Ecclesiastes,
but for those who aren't I'll quote the relevant verses. "Or ever the
silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken
at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return
to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave
it."-Eccles. 12:6-7 Dead people do not have the spirit those who die without Christ that is.
The word for spirit in the Hebrew is ruach, and the meaning of the word is
deduced only from its usage. The root idea is an invisible force. In Eccles. 3:19-20
we read, "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even
one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have
all one breath (ruach); so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for
all is vanity. All go unto one place {Yes to the dust}
(i.e. Sheol or the grave); all are of the dust, and all turn to dust
again." What does 'All' mean to you? To me it
means just that we all have to die and go back to the DUST that means our flesh
not our soul. Obviously some more verses are necessary to compare,
clarify, and understand what's really going on.
Rev. 20:15 does seem to clarify when you say clarified
this is to twist. that being born of the spirit is different than the
ruach which is what is thrown into the lake of fire. I don't know if I'd go as
far as to say that this is a literal lake of fire because in verse 14 it says
"And death and hell (the grave) O” you do not know
it means a literal hell? Lets se what the Bible has to say, Sorry Jim I did not
write this Yahweh did KJV. Revelation 14:11 and the smoke of their torment
ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship
the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. were
cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." A second death means what it says; you die once, than all
the dead will rise to life to be judged, than comes the judgment and than you
die again when you are thrown into the lake of fire. This does not mean that your spirit will die, only that you will be separated from God forever; this is the meaning of the second death. Jim says The Lake
of fire IS the second death. The lake of fire=the second death. After the word
'death', the texts add "the lake of fire". Jimbob Yes all death will go to hell and the Bible quotes death in
all the gospels and beyond so Yeshua spoke about death and were Mark 9:47-49 47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it
is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having
two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49. For
every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with
salt.
Jim remember when I said if I am
wrong to the forum to feel free to correct me, that I was not proud to be
corrected. If I see truth I will admit I was wrong, and I will love you for
that. So please do not take this wrong or against you, but Christian forums are
good to clarified any misunderstandings of scriptures, and if you can see the truth blessed are
your eyes for they see. Yahweh bless you Jim, and I am so happy to have you as
one of our members, we really love you dearly. Anna

Lee, why do you and Anna find it necessary to put me down? You have both made the very same statement that "even a child can understand...". Is that really necessary? How does that prove your point? It doesn't, it's pointless. Not to mention condescending. If I'm wrong on this point, then please elaborate. Connect all the dots, spell it out so that someone dumber than a child could understand it. Yes, that means back it all up with scripture citations.

Let me get the ball rolling for you. Hades occurs eleven times in the new testament (Matt.11;23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Act. 2:27,31; 1 Cor. 15:55; Rev. 1:18;6;8;20;13,14); and is rendered "hell" in every passage except one, where it is rendered "grave" (1Cor.15:55, and in the margin 'hell'). In the Revised Version the word is always transliterated "Hades", except in 1Cor. 15:55 (where "death' is substituted because of the reading, in all the texts, of thanate for hade), and in the Americaqn R.V. also. As I mentioned before, Hades is the Divine Scriptural equivalent of Sheol, which occurs 65 times, and is rendered "the grave" 31 times; "hell" 31 times( 4 times with margin 'the grave"; and "pit" only 3 times. "The grave", is most likely the best rendering, meaning the state of death. The rendering "pit' obviously means the 'the grave" and is easily substituted for it. (Num.16;30,33 Job 17:16)

The rendering 'the grave' (not 'a grave', which is Hebrew keber, or bor) exactly expresses the meaning of both Sheol and Hades. From one of my appendixes I quote, "For, as to direction, it is always down; as to place, it is in the earth; as to relation, it is always in contrast with the state of the living (Deut.32;22-25 and 1 Sam. 2:6-8); as to association, it is connected with mourning (Gen.37:34:35), sorrow (Gen.42:38 2Sam.22;6 PS. 18:5; 116;3), fright and terror (Num.16;27,34),silence (Ps.6:5; 31:17 Ecc. 9;10), no knowledge (Ecc.9:5,6,10), punishment (Num. 16:29,34 1Kings 2;6,9 Job 24:19 Ps. 9:17), corruption(Ps. 16:10 Acts. 2:27,31); as to duration, resurrection is the only exit from it (Ps. 16;11 Acts. 2;27,31; 13;33-37 1Cor.. 15:55 Rev. 1:18; 20;5,13,14).".

In Matt. 16:18 it says the gates of hell or the gates of Hades which is talking about the power of the grave to retain, as in Isa. 38:10 Job 38:17 Ps. 9:13; 107;18. Then it says 'shall not prevail'. This word prevail in the Greek is katischuo and it means "to have full strength, to another's detriment". So the grave will not have power to retain its captives, because Christ holds the keys, and those gates aren't strong enough. The Resurrection is the subject here.

If you don't think that the grave has the power to hold the dead, start digging.

I have already cited passages from scripture which show that the spirit which animates the body returns to God at death.

When refuting me, please cite the passages of scripture you are refering to, and connect the dots. I'll be the first to admit I'm a little slow, but I don't need you to tell me that, and it goes nowhere in proving your point. You know I can get a little testy at times so please don't bait me, I'm trying to be civil and guard my tongue. Thanks. Jimbob

I am sorry if you think I am insulting your intelligence, I
did not mean it in that way. Of course you are smarter that a child, a child
could not write the way you do. I only said that even a child can understand,
to get my point across to you how simple it is to understand, I did not mean to
call you dumber than a Child. I did not realize that it came out that way and
for that I am sorry. I will get back to the topic at hand in a while, right now
I have to cook for my Hungry wife. If I could Email you a plate I would. Christ’s
Love Lee.

Jimbob it is not easy to tell someone over again with same
scriptures and you still don't get what we are saying! So I say a little child,
if he hears Jesus tell him that hell is for all who's names are not written in
the Lambs book of life, does he go on to study another meaning to God's word
when it is that clear. I just take it by what He says and that settles it, I do
not need the Greek or the Hebrew to figure out what Yeshua has said in His own
words clearly, to me this is not a puzzle it is clear. Now the Bible has many mysteries
but in some cases is clear, what we said to you is clear. I am sorry and please
forgive me about the Child. but sometimes we need to come in child like faith,
to accept what Jesus is saying and put our own understanding to the side. We just
trust what He has said, that is all. I do not know how to explain it clearer,
well I guess you made up your mind that we are wrong and you are right. But we
must give the people the choice to believe either way, and the rest is up to the
hearer to see which makes sense to them. Jim I really felt bad for saying about
a child, I did not mean that you were stupid in any way, we have always said
that you are smart even in privet messages. Shalom-Peace to you brother. Anna

Anna what you said may be clear to you and if you are content to accept it on faith then there isn't much to talk about, but for me, and I'll admit I have a bit of a bias here, when I was growing up I was inculcated into the doctrines and dogmas of the catholic church and my questions were always met with the same response, namely that it is a mystery and can't be understood with our feeble minds.

Smart people don't get conned as many times as I've been conned, although I'm not getting snookered like I used to. I'm of the opinion that approaching these topics with the attitude of the Bereans will offer the most rewards, and with Paul I say "prove all things'. For me, it isn't about proving someone wrong, but finding the truth and proving it with scripture. To accept and be content with a translation is a totally foreign idea to me. I can still remember vividly how I felt in the first grade when sister Ellen told our class that the bible we were reading was a translation from the original manuscripts. I was horrified. I'm not exagerrating. I thought that reading someone else's translation of God's word was a total waste of time. Only as an adult many years later did I realize that so many of the things I had been taught which seemed so crystal clear at the time were dead wrong. I felt lied to. I felt conned. I'm not implying that you are practicing deciet, but that my esperience early on in life has resulted in me not taking things at face value. I can't help but dig into God's word, and disect it, I don't want to get complacent about rightly dividing God's word. JImbob

You asked "Where was Jesus for three days between His death and resurrection?". Although the answer is simple but I think it all got confused when you all started to discuss the heart of the earth. Heart of the earth means beneath the surface of the earth. I do not know what is so confusing about it?

Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel...And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. (1 Samuel 28:11-15)

Well Dan you have a clear picture and I have a clear picture, but they aren't the same picture. Your quote is a good one to use to illustrate my point. First off, in verse 11 the woman asks Saul who he wants her to bring "up". Not down or "forth" as in John 11:43,44. The woman is a "medium" and has summoned a deceiving or "familiar" spirit which is impersonating Samuel. In verse 14 she says he is wearing a 'mantle', but Samuel's spirit was with God (Ecc.12:7). And if it was Samuel's body, it would be wearing 'grave clothes'.

God forbids consulting familiar spirits or mediums. They are frauds, they lie, they impersonate people. "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God." (Lev. 19;31) There are deadly consequences to listening to these deceiving spirits. "And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set My face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his People."(Lev.20:6). "A man also or a woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." (Lev. 20:27) "There shall not be found among you ...a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord:..." (Deut. 18:10-12) It is explicitly stated in 1Chron. 10:13,14 that this is why Saul died. "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the Lord: therefore He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." Enquiring of God and believing what God says is a pervasive theme throughout the bible. We are explicitly warned not to heed the lies of demons, spirits, the devil etc.

Jimbob
said John 11:43,44. The woman is a "medium" and has summoned a
deceiving or "familiar" spirit which is impersonating Samuel. In
verse 14 she says he is wearing a 'mantle', but Samuel's spirit was with God
(Ecc.12:7). And if it was Samuel's body, it would be wearing 'grave clothes'.

Sorry none of the Old Testament people ever resurrected to
heaven They were asleep. until Jesus resurrected. He was the first resurrected to
heaven. Matt.27:52-53 And the graves
were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept
arose, And came out of the graves after
his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared
unto many. NAS Luke 20:35-36 but those who are considered worthy to attain to
that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in
marriage; 36. for they cannot even die
anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the
resurrection. John 5:28-34 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are
in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good
{deeds} to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil {deeds} to a
resurrection of judgment. David was a prophet king and priest but he did not
acend to heaven before Jesus did Acts 2;3-4 "For
it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID
TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, Romans 1:3-4 concerning His Son, who was born of a
descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God
with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness,
Jesus Christ our Lord. Jimbob Please dissect these verses and you will see that
no one has gone to heaven since He is the first born from the dead Yahweh will
not have dead people in Heaven but now they have the Holy Spirit and that makes
them Holy. 1Cor. 15:16-22 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has
been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith
is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in
Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only,
we are of all men most to be pitied. The Order of Resurrection But now Christ has been raised from the dead,
the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man {came} death, by a man
also {came} the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all
will be made alive. Blessings to you I really admire your digging and I mean
this Jim. Anna You are smart you can figure it all out I have faith in you. Anna

Anna, you start your post out with "Sorry", there's no need to apologize, but that lengthy and very informative post wasn't really necessary because I never said anyone from the old testament was resurrected. You might be breezing through my posts and/or defining words differently than I am again. Did you notice the passages from scripture which I posted?

I think that it is imperative to look at the usage of words, not just in context, but in different contexts in the bible. If a particular word is being used the same way everywhere it is used, then it stands to reason that the definition of the word will be the same. If a different word is used, it might behoove us to look at how it is being used in different contexts as well. Let's take the word ruach as an example. It occurs 389 times in the Hebrew O.T. It is rendered spirit in 237 passages. In the remaining 152 places it is translated in 22 different ways, which should be carefully distinguished. The meaning of the word is found only from its usage.

Ruach, in whatever sense it is used, always represents that which is invisible. As coming from God, it is the invisible origin of life. All apart from this is death. Ruach is used of God, the Holy Spirit, spirit beings, etc., but for purposes of this discussion we want to look at all the places where it is used of the invisible part of man. It is given by God to man at birth, and returns to God at his death. "Breath" Gen. 6:17; 7:15,22 Job 9:18; 12:10; 17:1 Ps.104:29; 135:17; 146:4 Rvv. 3:19 Jer.10:14;51:17 Lam.4:20 Ezek. 37:5,6,8,9,10 Hab.2:19 Zech. 12:10
"spirit" Gen. 6:3 Num. 16:22; 27:16 Job 27:3; 34:14 Ps. 31:5; 104:30 Ecc. 3:21; 8:8; 11:5; 12:7 Isa 42:5
"wind" Ezek. 37:9

Looking at each and every one of these passages should make it abundanly clear what the meaning of ruach is, and why the writers chose to use it. I think that accepting or refuting these passages would go a long way towards furthering our discussion. Jimbob

Jimbob wrote:The woman is a "medium" and has summoned a deceiving or "familiar" spirit which is impersonating Samuel.

Evil spirits can do that but they cannot speak of God. As you have said it was not Samuel but a deceiving spirit then I believe that the spirit should have deceived King Saul but the Spirit said:

Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel:... (! Samuel 28:16-20)

Moreover, it is clearly mentioned that it was Samuel as the spirit claimed:

• Samuel reminded King Saul of the words that God spoke through him that He wouldl take away Saul's kingship over Israel and give it to "a man after his heart". For reference see: 1 Samuel 13:14
  
• King Saul was dismayed by the words of Samuel. No where it says spirit
  
• This part of Samuel may have been written by Nathan or Gad, do you think they deceived us? Nathan and Gad wrote under the guidance of Holy Spirit. Do you think that they were deceived and mistook an impersonating spirit to be Samuel?
  

I do not know why we are all so fond of "why this happened" or "What does this word mean" or "I want to know the truth before I believe"? Why can't we have this attitude that we must follow God and His commands instead of putting up question after question.

Daniel you make some excellent points. In verse 14 the word for man in the Heb. is 'ish' which isn't a spirit. While it plainly says "Then said Samuel" God may have sent a 'lying spirit", and given by it a true messag, just as He did in 2 Chron. 18:19-22. Nothing was said but what was well known before.

You yourself say in your post "it was Samuel as the spirit claimed." Who claimed? You ask why can't we just follow God's commands, but I posted the relavent commands from God. Commands which Saul disobeyed. Do you think that the writer of the book of Samuel was ignorant of God's prohibition against consulting with familiar spirits?

I think that I can understand the sentiment of the last part of your post, but using words improperly leads to confusion. Knowing the truth will set you free. Believing in false doctrines won't lead one to heaven. Jesus asked and answered many questions. Being asked to curtail one's questions is one of the hallmarks of a cult. Jimbob

King Ahab and false prophets

King Ahab of Israel asked Jehoshaphat if he would go with him and attack Ramoth–gilead. Jehoshaphat asked King Ahab to inquire of the LORD if He was with them or not. King Ahab gathered 400 men and asked them if he should go to Ramoth-gilead or shall he lay off his attack. All his false prophets said: And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramoth–gilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king. (2 Chronilces 18:11) They all deceived King Ahab and lied to him that LORD was with him.

Now there was a prophet who spoke of LORD and did not have a lying spirit, King Ahab hated him because And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man by whom we may inquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he never prophesieth good concerning me, but always evil: the same is Micaiah the son of Imla. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so. (2 Chronicles 18:7)

Even they also tried to make Micaiah speak a lie and speak good of the King but And the messenger that went to call Micaiah spake to him, saying, Behold, the words of the prophets declare good to the king with one mouth: let thy word, therefore, I pray thee, be like one of theirs, and speak thou good. (2 Chronicles 18:12)

But Micaiah sopke what God wanted him to speak to King Ahab And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master; let them return every man to his house in peace. (2 Chronicles 18:16)

Now here there are two types of prophets, the ones who wanted to please the King and the other who wanted to please the LORD. So the distinction of false and true prophet is very clear here.

King Saul
King Saul was surrounded by the Philistines and he was afraid. He inquired of the LORD but he got no answer. Although according to the God's command he had placed the law against sorcerers and mediums but in distress he tried to seek Samuel's help. And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
(1 Samuel 28:9)

However, King Saul made a vow to her that he will not say anything to her. And on his request he called Samuel's spirit. Now the spirit that came out of ground, did not deceive King Saul by telling him that LORD is with him and we have victory over Philistines. But the spirit talked about a warning that was given by him, when he alive to King Saul. Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD and didst not execute his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. (1 Samuel 28:18)

The spirit never lied to King Saul as Micaiah never spoke that was pleasing to King Ahab. If the spirit that came out of the ground was a lying spirit (according to you), then it must have told King Saul what he wanted to hear. But the spirit that came out of the ground was of Samuel and was not a lying spirit because the spirit of Samuel prophesied according to what God has spoken through him when he was alive.

Jimbob wrote:You yourself say in your post "it was Samuel as the spirit claimed."
Who claimed? You ask why can't we just follow God's commands, but I
posted the relavent commands from God. Commands which Saul disobeyed.
Do you think that the writer of the book of Samuel was ignorant of
God's prohibition against consulting with familiar spirits?

I never said that King Saul's action was approved of God rather he sinned. I was not commenting on sin of King Saul but I was commenting on the heart of the earth to your question.

Daniel, the spirit is lying in that it is claiming to be Samuel. This is how demonic spirits operate. They are very convincing in that much of what they say is true, but they very subtly slip something in that is deceptive and false.

I posted a number of passages from the bible which I assume you read and agree with, but you still seem to believe that the ruach which animates a man during their life goes into the earth which is clearly false(see quotes from yesterday 11:05 p.m.). The writer clearly states that this spirit came 'up' which for someone who knows and keeps God's commandments would be a clear sign that this is a familiar spirit. You question why "we" (speak for yourself) can't follow God and His commands, and then you take the word of a familiar spirit over God's clear command to steer clear of familiar spirits.

Your last reply shows that you have no answer. I have showed you the difference between lying spirit and a prophet's spirit from the verse you quoted from the Bible. If you have an answer then disagree with my last post with Biblical verses and not with your assumptions. Here is a Lexicon version of 1 Samuel 28:14:

1 Samuel 28:14

And he said
'amar (aw-mar')
to say (used with great latitude)

---

unto her What form
to'ar (to'-ar)
outline, i.e. figure or appearance -- + beautiful, comely, countenance, + fair, favoured, form, goodly, resemble, visage.

---

is he of And she said
'amar (aw-mar')
to say (used with great latitude)

---

An old
zaqen (zaw-kane')
old -- aged, ancient (man), elder(-est), old (man, men and...women), senator.

---

man
'iysh (eesh)
a
man as an individual or a male person; often used as an adjunct to a
more definite term (and in such cases frequently not expressed in
translation)

---

cometh up
`alah (aw-law')
to
ascend, intransitively (be high) or actively (mount); used in a great
variety of senses, primary and secondary, literal and figurative (as
follow)

---

and he is covered
`atah (aw-taw')
to wrap, i.e. cover, veil, cloth, or roll -- array self, be clad, (put a) cover (-ing, self), fill, put on, surely, turn aside.

---

with a mantle
m`iyl (meh-eel')
a robe (i.e. upper and outer garment) -- cloke, coat, mantle, robe.

---

And Saul
Sha'uwl (shaw-ool')
asked; Shaul, the name of an Edomite and two Israelites -- Saul, Shaul.

---

perceived
yada` (yaw-dah')
to
know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of
senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially

---

that it was Samuel
Shmuw'el (sehm-oo-ale')
heard of God; Shemuel, the name of three Israelites -- Samuel, Shemuel.

---

and he stooped
qadad (kaw-dad')
to shrivel up, i.e. contract or bend the body (or neck) in deference -- bow (down) (the) head, stoop.

---

with his face
'aph (af)
the nose or nostril; hence, the face, and occasionally a person; also (from the rapid breathing in passion) ire

---

to the ground
'erets (eh'-rets)
the earth (at large, or partitively a land) -- common, country, earth, field, ground, land, natins, way, + wilderness, world.

---

and bowed
shachah (shaw-khaw')
to depress, i.e. prostrate (especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God)

Lexicon

Where is it written a "lying spirit" or rauch? Please keep your personal comments to yourself - Remember it is you who is asking question and not me.

Daniel, I didn't ask the question, "Where was Jesus for 3 days?". I was answering the question which in turn continued the discussion and revealed some differences of opinion. By using "we" you include more than just yourself, that's why I said "speak for yourself". If you want my "take" on where Jesus was for 3 days all you have to do is go back to the beginning of this topic and read it.

Another word which can be translated as 'breath' is the Hebrew word 'nephesh'. These words should be distinguished and not confused with each other. The word nephesh occurs over 750 times, and in the majority of the occurances is translated 'soul'. for the sake of brevity I will only mention the passages where it is spoken of as going to a place described by four different words. 1.sheol=THE grave(as distinct from 'keber, A grave),rendered in two different ways: 'grave' and 'hell'. 2."shachath"= a pit , rendered as 'pit' and 'grave'. 3."shuchah"= a deep pit
4."dumah"= silence

Again, I would reiterate, if the word 'sheol' in the O.T. is the grave as in Ps. 16;10, and that same verse when quoted in the book of Acts. renders the word sheol as 'Hades', then where did anyone get the authority to change the meaning of the grave to some place where the souls of the dearly departed can hear anything? Where are the passages from scripture which change the meaning of hades?

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,.." -Ecc. 9:5

In Ps. 146:4 it says that when a man dies "his thoughts perish". jim

As the word nephesh is translated soul in the O.T., so to the word "psuche" is the only word translated "soul" in the N. T. It occurs 105 times, and is rendered "soul" 58 times, "life" 40 times, "mind" 3 times, and "heart", "heartily", "us", and "you" once each.

Psuche exactly corresponds to the Hebrew Nephesh. Wherever passages from the O.T. are translated in the N. T. Psuche is used to translate the Hebrew Nephesh.
Mark 12:29,30 compared with Deut. 6:4,5;
Acts 2;27 with Ps. 16:10;
Rom. 11:3 with 1 Kings19:10;
1 Cor. 15:45 with Gen. 2;7.

In the last example from 1Cor. Paul makes the distinction between a "living soul" and a "quickening spirit". The quickening spirit is the ressurection body as in 1Pet. 3:18; 4:6. jim

Jim said--but Samuel's spirit was with God

How can Samuel's spirit be with God, if the resurrection did not take place yet
until Jesus came. Samuel was in Abraham’s bosom just as Lee has said. It is the
comfort side of hell, and it is in the heart of the earth. You said why did I
give you so many verses on the resurrection, it was because you said Samuel's
spirit went to be with God, but he could not be with God because the resurrection
has not happen in Samuel’s days but in Jesus days.

Anna, you start your post out with "Sorry", there's no need to
apologize, but that lengthy and very informative post wasn't really necessary

“Yes
it was” necessary!

because I never said anyone from the old testament
was resurrected.

Yes you did you said Samuel went to be with God. So to
prove to you that you do Err that is why I gave you all the Resurrection verses
on this. Take care and blessings to you. Anna

Anna, my last few posts were meant to clarify the difference between the spirit(ruach) which returns to God at death, the soul (nephesh), and the "quickening spirit". Again, I never said Samuel was resurrected, and I didn't say that Samuel went to be with God either. Neither you nor Lee has supported your opinion with regards to "Abraham's bosom" and the "comfort side of hell" with documentation from the bible.

Anna, you asked, "How can Samuel's spirit be with God?" I answered this in my post yesterday at 11:05 p.m. and have since clarified it further in my last few posts. Obviously more clarifiction is necessary, but I don't know where to begin because I get the impression you aren't reading my posts. Jimbob

http://www.yeshuastruth.com/pages/AbrahamsBosom.html
Jimbob my husband wrote this years back and it is posted in yeshua's truth.com --maybe this will clear up some things with scripture giving.
Jimbob said

Anna, my last few posts were meant to clarify the difference between
the spirit(ruach) which returns to God at death, the soul (nephesh),
and the "quickening spirit"

again only after the resurrection is the spirit able to go to heaven. YES I DO READ EVERYTHING YOU POST, and I find some things very interesting; and in some you are very smart, and others you do err, blessings to you Jim.