Your Sins Are Forgiven
Your Sins Are Forgiven
by Lee on Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:05 am
I have a question, in John 20:23 Jesus speaking to His Apostles it says ( If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven, if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.) From this time on it would appear that Jesus gave His Apostles the power and authority to forgive sins as He has the power to forgive sins as God on earth! So my question is if they, (His Apostles) had the authority to forgive sins, do we as Christians today have that same authority to forgive sins? I would think that it was only for the Apostles and not for us, but I really dont know! What do you all think?
Re: Your Sins Are Forgiven
by DanielV on Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:28 am
Lee,you ask a difficult question, one that has been disputed since the birth of the church. Do we (Christians) have the authority to forgive sins? Yes and no. We can forgive the sins that are committed against us, but only God has the authority and power to forgive sin. If the person does not seek forgiveness from God, they still are in their sin. (Because if man can forgive sin, how useless was Christ's death on the cross) But, our forgiveness to them, may lead them to Christ, by observing our nature towards them.
Here are a couple of points to ponder:
1. In the model prayer (or Lord's prayer) we ask for our transgressions to be forgiven, as we have forgiven those who have transgressed against us. Then it is taken a little farther, For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14,15) This appears to be contradictory to John 20:23, yet it enhances that statement. WE are not forgiven, if we do not practice forgiveness.
2. It puts too much power in the hands of the human, and limits the power of God. If a Christian refuses to forgive someone (for whatever justification they may feel they have), then, no matter how penitent the other person is, God could not forgive them, because of the unforgiveness of the Christian. By that I mean, looking at the phrase, they are not forgiven if we don't forgive someone, it gives the appearance of limiting the power of God.
What we can glean from this statement is this: If the person is penitent and accepts Christ as their savior, can we tell the person that their sins are forgiven. Yes, we can because we know what God's Holy Word says. How many new Christians have struggled with doubt? Doubt that they are truly saved. As a Christian we can in all sincerity tell them that they are forgiven, we can disciple and mentor them as they grow in Christ.
What does this verse imply then: "Can it imply any more than, a power of declaring with authority the Christian terms of pardon; whose sins are remitted and whose retained? As in our daily form of absolution; and a power of inflicting and remitting ecclesiastical censures? That is, of excluding from, and re - admitting into, a Christian congregation." - John Wesley Explanatory Notes on the Bible.
The one thing I can truly glean from this passage is this: It does not confer the papal authority to forgive sins through penitent actions. In order to be truly forgiven, we must go directly to the author of forgiveness, the Father in heaven, through his Son Jesus.
Here are a couple of points to ponder:
1. In the model prayer (or Lord's prayer) we ask for our transgressions to be forgiven, as we have forgiven those who have transgressed against us. Then it is taken a little farther, For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14,15) This appears to be contradictory to John 20:23, yet it enhances that statement. WE are not forgiven, if we do not practice forgiveness.
2. It puts too much power in the hands of the human, and limits the power of God. If a Christian refuses to forgive someone (for whatever justification they may feel they have), then, no matter how penitent the other person is, God could not forgive them, because of the unforgiveness of the Christian. By that I mean, looking at the phrase, they are not forgiven if we don't forgive someone, it gives the appearance of limiting the power of God.
What we can glean from this statement is this: If the person is penitent and accepts Christ as their savior, can we tell the person that their sins are forgiven. Yes, we can because we know what God's Holy Word says. How many new Christians have struggled with doubt? Doubt that they are truly saved. As a Christian we can in all sincerity tell them that they are forgiven, we can disciple and mentor them as they grow in Christ.
What does this verse imply then: "Can it imply any more than, a power of declaring with authority the Christian terms of pardon; whose sins are remitted and whose retained? As in our daily form of absolution; and a power of inflicting and remitting ecclesiastical censures? That is, of excluding from, and re - admitting into, a Christian congregation." - John Wesley Explanatory Notes on the Bible.
The one thing I can truly glean from this passage is this: It does not confer the papal authority to forgive sins through penitent actions. In order to be truly forgiven, we must go directly to the author of forgiveness, the Father in heaven, through his Son Jesus.
Re: Your Sins Are Forgiven
by Anastasia on Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Yes Daniel, I agree with you and I also like to point out that even the Jews knew that no man has that right but Yahweh. When Yeshua told the cripple man that was let let down from the roof-- NJWA Luke 5:20-24 Seeing their faith he said, "My friend, your sins are forgiven you."
21. The scribes and the Pharisees began to think this over. "Who is this man, talking blasphemy? Who but God alone can forgive sins?"
22. But Jesus, aware of their thoughts, made them this reply, "What are these thoughts you have in your hearts?
23. Which of these is easier: to say, `Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, `Get up and walk'?
24. But to prove to you that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins,", he said to the paralysed man, "I order you: get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home." That is the proof that only Jesus can forgive sins, He prove it with a sign of power to heal the man at the same time, as to give credit that He can do so. Remember the Jews seek a sign and they got it. Thanks for clearing this up, blessings in His Name. Yeshua
21. The scribes and the Pharisees began to think this over. "Who is this man, talking blasphemy? Who but God alone can forgive sins?"
22. But Jesus, aware of their thoughts, made them this reply, "What are these thoughts you have in your hearts?
23. Which of these is easier: to say, `Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, `Get up and walk'?
24. But to prove to you that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins,", he said to the paralysed man, "I order you: get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home." That is the proof that only Jesus can forgive sins, He prove it with a sign of power to heal the man at the same time, as to give credit that He can do so. Remember the Jews seek a sign and they got it. Thanks for clearing this up, blessings in His Name. Yeshua
Re: Your Sins Are Forgiven
by jimbobthephonecian on Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:25 pm
THe passage from John along with the passages from Matt. 16:19; and 18:18 are all saying essentially the same thing. I think that all three passages are difficult to understand because of the way the sentences are constructed. If they said,'Whose soever sins ye remit, they will be remitted' and 'whose soever sins ye retain, they will be retained' That would indicate that Jesus is bestowing some power on them. I will admit there are some translations that do say that, but that isn't what it says in the Greek or the translation you posted. John's passage isn't quite as clear as Matt's because John has it in the present perfect passive, while Matt. is in the past perfect preterite. Jesus isn't giving them the power to forgive sins, but He is telling them that they are going to follow the pattern from heaven. If Jesus were giving them the power to forgive sins, He would be giving them more power than even He had because everything He said and did was given to Him from the Father. The passages from Matt. tend to throw people off because when it says 'will be' this makes it a periphrastic future perfect. The 'having been loosed' and 'having been bound' are both past perfect preterite. So this isn't about the disciples having celestial appoval for whatever they loose or bind, but that they will be following the heavenly pattern. We ask for God's will 'on earth as it IS in heaven'. Moses was given the blueprints for the Temple which was after the pattern of the Temple in heaven.
This was for the apostles only. I don't see this being passed on, despite what the catholic church and other like minded churches might say. The church that existed during the period of the Acts isn't the same church that Paul was talking about in his letters because that one was a mystery kept from the foundation of the world. Jim
This was for the apostles only. I don't see this being passed on, despite what the catholic church and other like minded churches might say. The church that existed during the period of the Acts isn't the same church that Paul was talking about in his letters because that one was a mystery kept from the foundation of the world. Jim
